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#1 Honbun

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 02:18 PM

I'll kick this thread off since there doesn't seem to be a thread about the Korean national league. Who do you think will win the match between Korea and Japan? I think it's going to be a close match because both teams have been uninspiring players when it comes to shooting goals at the net. I didn't really watch many Japanese matches closely but caught highlights of their match with Mexico in the semi-final today and found them to be poor players in general in that game. Korea played defense well in their match against GB and that was good enough to keep the score even right up until almost the end because even though they only scored one goal, GB didn't score high in this match either. So the two teams were well matched in terms of defense and attack, with Korea managing to edge out GB on PKs alone. Well, I suppose if that's what it takes to win a match, you have to take what you can get. Both the Korean and Japanese teams are pretty juiced up to be in the bronze medal match as Asian teams rarely reach this far. I don't know why France, Italy, Spain and Germany did not perform well in this Olympics ... maybe this competition is not that big a deal for them (?) The exuberance the Asians are going to feel at having a chance to win a bronze medal will mean that they will play hard and will attack harder than they have in their matches on Tuesday. But players do not improve overnight and we are going to see a lot of flyballs and wide balls and lots of silly goal shooting attempts from wide angles, and long shots and corner kicks that land badly - too high, too far, or are even aimed at the goal net from almost impossible angles - an all-too familiar sight in Korean football matches. And the Korean coach is not going to lay down the hard yard about how the strikers should pass the ball when they find the goal difficult to shoot from where they are ... because if he hasn't done that by now, he isn't going to do it before this last match of the competition. This is, IF he's even thinking along those lines. Not sure if this coach is on the ball or not. It's a toss who will win. Japan disappointed me with their performance against Mexico. Korea and Japan are practically eyeball to eyeball in their weaknesses. One problem with the Korean side is that they may be overconfident going into the next game, thinking Japan is relatively easy to defeat (especially after Brazil) and they may lower their guard and not defend as well as they did against the GB team. I think I will give the Japanese a slight edge over the Koreans and predict the Japanese are going to defeat Korea. If Korea is defeated, it should serve as a wakeup call that they are in the big leagues now and they can't afford to play as if they are in the regionals back home, with passes going out of field, missed easy passes, and other points carelessly thrown away as they did in the game with Brazil. You don't make those kind of errors and hope to pose even a SHADOW of a threat to a team like Brazil. Not that Brazil is all that actually. Diving seems to be a core part of their game strategy, which takes away much of their mystique as "great players". A defeat against Japan may actually work in Korea's favor. To be defeated by Japan, the rival that didn't even make it to the quarter finals in the 2002 World Cup, and didn't advance as far as Korea in the 2010 World Cup (although Japan did well in the recent Asian Championships), will bring it home to them that they need to do a major reworking of their tactics, their management, their training, and most importantly their ethos - in short, changes to everything - or forever be written off as a mediocre team that blew their own trumpet much too hard, with the encouragement of the Korean public.

Edited by Honbun, 09 August 2012 - 04:32 PM.


#2 Honbun

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:03 PM

I was disappointed that Son Heung Min was not in the national team for the Olympics. The guy is a natural talent, and when he isn't hampered by injuries, shows amazing goal-shooting ability. I think he missed a big chance in not taking part in the Olympics. The Korean national team was quite unremarkable so if Son Heung Min had performed as well in the Olympics as he has done in the preseason games for Hamburg, he would have become the overnight darling of the Korean football public. Scoring a goal in the Olympics would have raised his confidence a lot, and even though he and others have said that he needed to mature more before representing Korea in these international games, the process of playing on a national team against international teams would have done a lot to develop him as a player. And Korea may have benefited a lot with the injection of new blood into the national team.

#3 Honbun

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 03:34 PM

The main problems with the Korean soccer team are:1) Poor concentration - the players allow themselves to be carried away by their emotions too much - highs when they score and frustration when they miss. Top league players shouldn't seesaw emotionally when they play. The Korean players are not focused on the game enough. Bad calls tend to upset them overly instead of being ignored. Also, when they fall because they were fouled, they should immediately get up and carry on with the game. It's not always guaranteed that the referee will call a foul, and while they are on the ground waiting for the call that might never come, the other team has a chance to sweep the ball over to the goal end undefended, with the Korean team still paying attention to the fallen player.The Korean team should realize that the time for celebration is AFTER the match, not before. A single point is just that - a single point. Even if the Korean team is ahead by four points, it is not the time to relax. Teams have recovered from being 0-4 down to win the match. When the Korean team is feeling over-confident is exactly the moment when they are in greatest danger of playing badly and letting the opposition slip by them and win.2) Very bad end-game. Since Korea doesn't have any outstanding strikers, there needs to be a makeover of strategy. Instead of having one designated striker, the team should cooperate more in getting the ball into the goal. Shooting a goal should be more of a team effort with the striker not necessarily being the one to kick the ball into the goal. That is to say when the striker has control of the ball, he should not attempt a strike unless he is in a PERFECT position to strike a goal. A perfect position means he should be within a certain radius of the net, he should be within a predetermined angle range, and he should have a relatively free path ahead of him.If all these three conditions are not met, he should NOT attempt a strike. Yes, he might score, but the chances of a failed strike are higher.It is better for the team if this rule is followed. In this way, the rate of successful attempts is increased - a higher conversion rate is achieved - which will benefit the team on the whole because it gives them a better return on effort - that is, a better return on the energy and time spent on getting the ball to a prime location for scoring.If a striker or another player decides to take a chance on a risky kick and fails, he lets the whole team down. They have become fatigued for nothing, getting the ball towards the goal end, only to see the ball go wide or way over the net, with the other team now in possession of the ball. Now they have to work hard at regaining possession and after that, have to work their way down to the goal end again. Plus the other team might score while they have possession.In other words, making these low-odds goal kicks does not pay off - it is very stupid.If they are successful, it could actually work against the whole team because the striker might be encouraged to repeat the risky strike again and may make it a habit to attempt these strikes that have low chance of success.If the coach is strategy-minded, he would be aware that making these risky strikes is not profitable for the team, and he should explain to the team that they should not be done and anyone who attempts them should not be encouraged by the other players. For example, if a striker makes a risky kick and scores, the team should not congratulate him until the end of the match. If at the end of the match, the striker missed more of the goal shooting attempts than he got in, then the team should chide him for wasting their efforts in getting the ball down to the goal end. The striker should be punished in some way for doing this - they often do it for personal glory because it is their faces which are remembered for scoring the goal and not the supporting players' - because if they are not censured, they will keep doing it.Furthermore, the coach needs to get other players into the general scoring area before goal attempts are made. Once the general scoring area is populated by the team's side, a goal attempt can be made. The chances of a successful goal will be higher in this situation because there are more of their side's players who can make contact with the ball, eg. on the rebound etc and then score a goal. Plus there will be a shorter distance to the goal which also increases the chance of scoring.Brazil is very good at this. In the scramble that often ensues when the ball is in the opposition's goal area and all the players are crowded around the net, the Brazilians will manage to get the ball in, taking advantage of the fact that the defenders are confused and panicking, and that there are many feet (or heads) of their players that can come into contact with the ball.Koreans play a very unimaginative game overall. You know that a corner kick will be high and that the Korean side will try and head it into the goal. Even though they use this play a lot, the Koreans cannot get this maneuver right. The kicker nine times out of ten will kick the ball too high and it will become another wasted chance, with the ball going out of bounds and into the opposition's control.You need fewer ex-footballers as coaches and you need more "rocket scientists" directing the players. Just as in the field of finance, number-crunching can give a side a big advantage. With statisticians involved, running algorithms, a more sophisticated game strategy can be crafted with more intelligent play resulting, increasing the chances of a successful match outcome.Koreans need to observe the games of teams like the Brazilian team more. They need to look at the endgame-strategy of the Brazilians who are quite good at wrapping up the goals. When the Brazilians get the ball near the goal, you know your team is in danger because the Brazilians don't waste their chances as much as poorer-performing teams.We saw that in the game between Brazil and Korea in the semi-finals of the London Olympics when the Koreans failed to score a single goal although they were more successful in having possession of the ball than the Brazilians in most of the first half of the match.So when a team like the Koreans lack natural talent or flair for football, they need to rely more on crafty strategy - moves that the other team does not expect for instance, and they need more patience in scoring a goal. The Koreans need to increase the probability that ball possession means a goal for them. To do this, they need to devise set plays and practise them so much so that when they are in a match, executing the set plays becomes automatic for them.So a coach's job is not just about telling his players to run ten laps around the practise field, do some leg-strengthening exercises and practise hitting headers and strikes into the goal net.He needs to approach it as a battle, with certain battle formations and ambushes worked out beforehand, with all the players knowing exactly where they will be and where their team members will be at any point in time, and who they will pass the ball to. They need to learn to communicate better on the football field too, with a system of signals worked out - with the freed up players able to inform the player with the ball to pass the ball to them.With superior battle formations, you can leverage your way to victory over an opponent who outnumbers you or has greater strength. Yi Sun Shin's naval successes against the Japanese proves this. Here is an account of Yi Sun Shin for those who are unfamiliar with the exploits of this Korean admiral:http://www.koreanher...HeroOfKorea.htmThe Mongols were famed for their battles that involved feints and pretended retreats - all tactics designed to entrap the enemy, often one that outnumbered the Mongol army.The Koreans need to work on creating all kinds of scenarios and plan exactly how they are going to respond to them, so that when they are on the football field, they will be able to react appropriately to any given situation, and have more control of the game, and ultimately, over how it turns out.This is intelligent soccer. Not the wild confused fumbling hit-and-miss style of play that we have witnessed from the Korean team.3) Korean players need to work on their power. The Brazilians' muscles are well-developed. This means their kicks are going to be powerful and will be less likely to be deflected by defenders in the ball's path.In contrast, Korean players look flabby, and it shows in their weak kicks that are easily intercepted by their opponents. The Korean players need to work on their upper body strength more. It will help them to sprint faster and also they are less likely to be pushed around by more aggressive players. Brazilian strikers are very muscular and it gives them added momentum as they power down toward the goal, easily knocking aside weaker-muscled defenders that try and stop them.In summary, the Korean side need to have a more mature outlook about the sport. Their attention spans should extend longer than a goal - either by their side or by the opposition. They should keep in mind that a game is not over until it's over. There are going to be ups and downs in the course of a match, and therefore, they should not be over-buoyed by the ups, nor overly frustrated by the inevitable setbacks ... and the setbacks include bad referee calls.Their long term goal should be winning the match, not scoring near-impossible goals. No one should be feted for being "man of the match". Winning is always a TEAM effort and is never the result of an individual's sole playing. The role of the striker in scoring a goal should be played down and the role of the supporting team members should be elevated. This way the striker does not steal the limelight away from the rest of the team. The match doesn't become about him only, but about the whole team. The whole team should be celebrated for a goal and not the person who put the ball into the net, with celebrations put on hold until the match is OVER.There will be plenty of time for self-congratulating once a match ends. Time on the football field should be spent trying to win the match, and only THAT.The Korean football team may score high in physical fitness, stamina and what have you, but their weak point is their mental game. Success in sports is 90% mental. Therefore, until the Koreans master that aspect of the game, they will NOT be champions in soccer.

Edited by Honbun, 11 August 2012 - 12:59 PM.


#4 Honbun

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:17 AM

Reiterating what I said in my last post. The team needs a TACTICIAN either as a coach or as an assistant coach. The current coach, Hong Myung-bo, doesn't have a clue how to make decisions because he doesn't have the necessary data to make correct ones. I can see where his thinking was going though. The substitute goalkeeper saved two critical goals in the match with GB, so he might repeat his performance in the match with Brazil. Park Chu Young missed his goal shoots and Ji Dong Won made one of his in so JDW is in as the striker and PCY doesn't start ... Seems kind of reasonable on the surface but his analysis isn't stringent enough. PCY misses his goal shoots but so does JDW. You are just replacing someone with a carbon copy of the same. JDW may be even more of goal shooting hugger than PCY. The problem isn't really that PCY misses his goal attempts, the problem is that he makes those goal shooting attempts in the first place. Seriously, the coach has got to nip that sort of behavior in the bud. It hurts the team immeasurably. He needs to discipline the strikers and other players who try and steal an impossible goal (impossible for them because they are not first class strikers), and if they infringe more than once, boot them OUT of the team. Forever. It is that damaging this behavior. As soon as PCY missed in that goal attempt against GB, he should have pulled him off and replaced him. If the substitute displayed the same behavior, he should have been subbed too, and so forth. The coach has to impose stern discipline on the players or else they are not going to pay mind to him and do whatever they want when they are on the field. And if they don't care for the discipline and keep doing things their way, get rid of them for good. It's no loss to the team because what has keeping these players on done for Korea? Zilch. No major international tournaments won. This way all the players know what the score is and that the ONLY thing that counts is the final results. Not a goal. The final score. It's individual glory or it's team glory. You can't have both. Let me repeat: you can't have both individual glory and team glory. One has to be sacrificed for the other. And the way I see it, team glory is what should matter to the coach. Some of the individual players are going to see it differently. They want to have their sponsorships. They want to be courted by the wealthy European leagues. They want to be "stars". But the coach has to lay down the law that goal shooting is not a personal lottery of these players. Players' thinking: score and hit it big. Miss and wait for another opportunity to score again. It matters little to these players that these misses are what makes their team lose the match. The pay-off from scoring is too much for these players to ignore. And so they will sacrifice the team for their own personal gain. Returning to the decisions that HMB could have made after the quarter-finals against Great Britain. With better gathering of statistics and a more rigorous analysis, HMB might have seen that putting LBY at the net was too great a risk. The stats were not on his side. Jung Sung Ryung was a proven quantity, Lee Bum Young might have played a fluke game the last game with GB. JDW is even more of a unpredictable player than PCY, and PCY is actually quite good at defense. Therefore, keep PCY on, but on a tight leash. As soon as he starts trying to show off, pull him off. And coach and drill the team on how to make the high conversion plays. These plays are what is going to get the Korean team to win consistently in the long run. Honestly, the tactics that the Korean team use are half-baked. They are really poor at finishing their plays off. They don't do their job properly. They seem clueless about what to do when they are near the opponent's net. I cringe when they are in this position because I know they are not going to handle it well, and it will be a FU of major proportions. And it demoralizes the whole team when they foul up this portion of their play, especially when it happens on a regular basis. When something isn't working, you need to do something different. Simple. The current coach doesn't seem to understand this however, and as a consequence, the performance of the team continues to be poor and Korea remains gold-medal less. The Korean public are starting to get tired of seeing this too. It's not enough to feel pride that Park Ji Sung plays for Manchester United etc, they want to see the Korean football team win a major international championship, namely the World Cup or the Olympics. The coach has sensed the change in mood. Even Park Ji Sung has weighed in and has said PCY needs to prove himself, he needs to get the goals in if he is to remain on the national team. However, PCY isn't really the main problem, he is just a SYMPTOM of the problem. Get rid of PCY and he will be replaced by JDW ... get rid of JDW and there will be another selfish player to replace him. It's human nature to play that way so the coach has to make it detrimental for these players to play like this. Hence, the need for punishment to act as controls to check this match-killing behavior from these players. I am sure that if a financial analyst and a quant (physics major, math major etc) were hired to work in tandem as trainers, we would see much better results. It matters little who scores the goal, it is that the goals are scored in the first place ... and EFFICIENTLY. That is the key here. Inefficient goals = bad playing. Goal conversion is a statistic that should be calculated for every match, for every player. If a player repeatedly attempts to shoot a goal but misses then that player should be taken off the field and if they keep doing that match after match, taken off the team. It's as elementary as that. I don't care how many goals he has scored. Even if he has scored two goals in the match but his conversion rate is 2%, he is a terrible player. His team did all the work for him but he got the glory for their efforts in shooting those two goals. And he wasted the other ninety-eight chances he was given. He could have potentially scored 100 goals but only scored 2 of them. In other words, conversion scores should be taken into consideration when assessing how good a player is. Baseball players have these kinds of figures as part of their vital stats, football players should have them too. There are no prizes given for "trying" to shoot a goal in soccer and there shouldn't be any rewards for that kind of behavior in training either. Who cares how successful the team is in gaining possession when their conversion rate is piss-poor? Conversion is what counts. Better to have a lower possession rate and a 100% conversion rate than have a high possession rate and an abysmal conversion rate. It's scientific. It's better to have a coach who is inexperienced in playing the game but who is good at tactics than someone who has played the game as a professional but can't strategize to save his life. Soccer is not brain surgery. You don't have to follow soccer for years to learn the rules of the game. You can learn them in less than a couple of hours of study. Likewise you don't have to have played that game for years to work out what the better strategies for the game are. You can pick that up from sitting down and watching half a dozen games. So it's definitely frustrating to see the Korean team in a rut, unable to lift their game to another level - the ways and means to improve their positioning are there for the taking. It's just a matter of breaking out of the same routine and engaging in more creative thinking. Thinking about what's going on in Korean soccer is like bashing one's head against a wall. Terribly aggravating.

Edited by Honbun, 11 August 2012 - 09:21 AM.


#5 nudge

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:45 AM

I was disappointed that Son Heung Min was not in the national team for the Olympics. The guy is a natural talent, and when he isn't hampered by injuries, shows amazing goal-shooting ability.I think he missed a big chance in not taking part in the Olympics. The Korean national team was quite unremarkable so if Son Heung Min had performed as well in the Olympics as he has done in the preseason games for Hamburg, he would have become the overnight darling of the Korean football public. Scoring a goal in the Olympics would have raised his confidence a lot, and even though he and others have said that he needed to mature more before representing Korea in these international games, the process of playing on a national team against international teams would have done a lot to develop him as a player. And Korea may have benefited a lot with the injection of new blood into the national team.

Son is a very talented player, and if it weren't for his unlucky injuries, he could become a big name in football. I hope to see more of him in Bundesliga this year.
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#6 Honbun

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:39 AM

Son is a very talented player, and if it weren't for his unlucky injuries, he could become a big name in football. I hope to see more of him in Bundesliga this year.

Yes, I think so too. He's a really exciting player to watch. Can't wait to see him in action.By the way, I think German national teams in general are very good and what I've said above about teamwork I've seen the German teams put into action. I found that out when I watched them play in the last World Cup. That's one major reason why they advanced so far. I thought it was a pity when they lost when they did but they were undone by the different style of play of the South American teams and some European teams in which diving is used a lot to collect penalty free kicks. Unfortunately the referees favor that style of play.I was also in Germany two years ago in Hannover and I couldn't believe how enthusiastic the fans were about their teams. I was on a train to somewhere, can't remember where, I think it was to Hamburg, and all the football fans were there on the way to a match. They were a really fun crowd.Tonight is the Korea-Japan bronze medal match. Going to stay up for that.

Edited by Honbun, 11 August 2012 - 04:30 AM.


#7 Honbun

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:39 AM

I didn't manage to stay up for that. I knew it wouldn't be a really exciting match to watch as it was between two relatively mediocre teams and didn't want to invest my time in that. Korea won which is actually a bad thing for Korea because it is going to give them a bigger head which is the last thing they need. As expected, the Korean public went over the top when Korea won. Get a grip - it was just a bronze medal in the Olympics and it was against Japan. If Japan made it to the semifinals and most of the champion national teams didn't make it to the quarterfinals, how good could the competition be? This win is going to keep the Korean national team and its managers in their delusional state. They are going to keep thinking that Korea in its current state has the potential to be among the champions and they will carry on as before. In other words, the memory of their defeat at the hands of Brazil will not stay with them, and the victory over Japan will. Their shockingly poor play against Brazil, with zero goals, should worry them seriously, but I suspect it's already forgotten. The coach HMB made the correct moves in this game, putting the experienced goalkeeper in the game and also Park Chu Young. The supporting players are the ones who earned those goals - it was their hard work of defending and gaining possession that allowed the eventual strikers to shoot those goals, but once again we see the theatrical antics of PCY and the other goal shooters in carrying on unashamedly, celebrating their own efforts instead of running straight to the team members who set up the strikes or wrested the ball into Korea's control, and congratulating them. PCY and Koo did nothing special to shoot those goals, all the work had already been done for them. Putting away those goals was just the easy part. These strikers and the coach need to understand that. But I really doubt it, and we are going to keep seeing the elation when Korea reaches the quarterfinals or semis, then the deflation when they are roundly defeated by a much better team, and finally, the celebrations when Korea manages to defeat an easier opponent in the play-offs for a lesser medal. Up and down, up and down, never a steady trajectory upwards. Never the capability to break through the barrier and win a major international championship. No recognition of the players who made the real difference with their consistent hard work and talented play. We are going to hear constantly about how Korea won the bronze in the Olympics, never how they were thrashed by Brazil in the semi-finals. The humiliation they received at the hands of Brazil has already been forgotten. Here, they are probably thinking they are the best, able to beat champions and win the top prize -- only if the referees gave them the break, only if they got a hold of a famous coach and paid him six figures, only if they got a first-class striker, and so on .... Objective self-appraisal will not happen. No self-introspection. Analysis of how many potential goals were MISSED in that game will not take place. Just pure gloating. Japan needs to work on their mental game as well. They were even worse than Korea in that department if that is possible. Probably why they lost. The mental aspects are the MOST important part of the game - I cannot stress this enough. I am very disappointed in the Japanese. I expected them to keep better focus than they did, and that is why I predicted they would win. Turkey, a nation, that was four-zero down in the match against Korea in the 2002 World Cup quarter-finals kept their cool, even when the referee made bad calls against them. They fought back and managed to defeat the Koreans who were taken by surprise, probably too busy congratulating themselves, already thinking they had wrapped up the match, to counter the excellent play by the Turkish team. So now the Koreans have even more of a swollen head than before. This win against Japan will delay the honest self-examination that is desperately needed. The Korean team will remain a second-rate team.

Edited by Honbun, 12 August 2012 - 04:41 PM.


#8 Honbun

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:54 AM

The fans are the worst supporters of the Korean national football team. I am talking about the English-speaking fans. They really support them in the worst way. They have very selective memories when it comes to evaluating the Korean soccer team. They downplay the absolutely shameful loss to the Brazilians and pump up the win over Japan.And I suspect many of these supporters are not even KOREAN citizens. They are American or Canadian citizens or something, they live in North America, and yet they say things like "our team" when referring to the Korean national football team.Makes you wonder about their loyalty. Reminds me of the birds and the bats story from Aesop's Fables.These people are usually male. Support for the Korean national soccer team is probably a de facto outlet that works as some sort of ego-defense mechanism for them. That is why they are intolerable to be around. You can't criticize their favorite football team because it is like criticizing THEM and attacking their manhood or something.Their manhood is so easily threatened because it is based on something so ridiculous as a football team's performance.That's why they cling so tightly to their Korean football threads and rarely venture outside that forum because they can't stand to take part in the give and take in a mature way that goes on in non-Korean forums and threads.And when someone whose ego is not bound up in how a football team performs ventures into "their" thread to discuss football and doesn't speak in glowing terms about the Korean national football team, they are all over the hapless poster calling them "troll" and "jealous" and so on.Check out the Korean forum on BigSoccer:http://www.bigsoccer...ussion.1972356/And the mod there who is a Korean ethnic and part of the group will even delete all your posts and leave the posts of the Korean members who personally attacked you and violated the rules of the forum because they are so terrified of having their fragile egos exposed for the world to see. No ethics whatsoever.The Korean national football team is better off without these people's support. They don't need the support of unethical cowards with inferiority complexes and identity issues who use the team to feed their own egos and who make real Korean citizens look bad to the world.Their behavior is highly predictable. It is easy to read their minds and work out their personalities and how they will respond.So if you come across these supporters, keep in mind that most likely they are not real Korean citizens. You don't have to be a citizen of a country to support that team but these "Korean" supporters will mislead you into thinking they are Korean citizens. They will suddenly forget where they live and work, their citizenship and everything like that, and suddenly (and conveniently) they are 100% Korean. Remember: "our team". You can tell whether a poster is a Korean citizen or not because 99.9% of Korean citizens do not post in English-speaking forums, and when they do, their English is bad.Even real Korean citizens who live in Korea and support the Korean national team wouldn't be able to stand these "fans". Korean citizens who are fans of the national football team are proud of their team, maybe more proud than they should be, but they are not obnoxious about their support, nor are they arrogant, unlike these English-speaking North American fans.These non-Korean citizen fans are even more fanatical about the Korean national team than 99% of Korean citizens themselves. Makes you wonder ....

Edited by Honbun, 11 August 2012 - 09:13 AM.


#9 Honbun

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:58 PM

Mexico-Brazil gameMexico played excellent defense. They played very good attack though a couple of the goal shoots were ill-advised. But overall their goal shooting attempts were efficient as they had a high conversion rate. The Brazilians lost their focus. There were fights between team members, heated arguing with the referee. They could have evened the score but they lost their head early on and could not recover. The Mexicans deserved that gold medal. They showed how a relatively unknown national team can defeat the “mighty” Brazilians. The Brazil team were heavily favored to win, but unfortunately they acted like winning was their “right” and not something to be earned, and all the falls from the Brazils notwithstanding, the Mexicans managed to outplay them and win the gold medal. Note that when the Mexicans won, they did not celebrate each goal like they had won the championship. In contrast, the Koreans reacted to every goal as if they had won the gold medal. Even their celebrations for winning the bronze medal were over the top. You could be excused for thinking they had won the grand prize from watching their antics if you hadn’t known any better. The Japanese players gave them that game. The Japanese defense was really atrocious. I don’t know WHAT they were thinking playing like that. Korea was lucky they met the Japanese in the finals otherwise winning wouldn’t have been so easy. There is something definitely off with the Japanese players. They could not defend their goal at all. Park Chu Young just ran right through them. Their coach should be sacked for not training them properly. I am surprised Japan made it as far as they did with their poor showing in the bronze medal match. Admittedly I haven’t seen many of their games, just snippets here and there of their matches in the Olympics. And the way they all sat on the ground after their defeat by Korea … why do that? It reminded me of babies throwing a tantrum when they don’t get what they want. Really surprised by the Japanese.

Edited by Honbun, 11 August 2012 - 05:00 PM.


#10 Fusion

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 05:26 PM

Will be interesting to see super "El Escudero" in the Korean league.
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#11 The Pensioner

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:49 AM

The fans are the worst supporters of the Korean national football team. I am talking about the English-speaking fans. They really support them in the worst way. They have very selective memories when it comes to evaluating the Korean soccer team. They downplay the absolutely shameful loss to the Brazilians and pump up the win over Japan.And I suspect many of these supporters are not even KOREAN citizens. They are American or Canadian citizens or something, they live in North America, and yet they say things like "our team" when referring to the Korean national football team.Makes you wonder about their loyalty. Reminds me of the birds and the bats story from Aesop's Fables.These people are usually male. Support for the Korean national soccer team is probably a de facto outlet that works as some sort of ego-defense mechanism for them. That is why they are intolerable to be around. You can't criticize their favorite football team because it is like criticizing THEM and attacking their manhood or something.Their manhood is so easily threatened because it is based on something so ridiculous as a football team's performance.That's why they cling so tightly to their Korean football threads and rarely venture outside that forum because they can't stand to take part in the give and take in a mature way that goes on in non-Korean forums and threads.And when someone whose ego is not bound up in how a football team performs ventures into "their" thread to discuss football and doesn't speak in glowing terms about the Korean national football team, they are all over the hapless poster calling them "troll" and "jealous" and so on.Check out the Korean forum on BigSoccer:http://www.bigsoccer...ussion.1972356/And the mod there who is a Korean ethnic and part of the group will even delete all your posts and leave the posts of the Korean members who personally attacked you and violated the rules of the forum because they are so terrified of having their fragile egos exposed for the world to see. No ethics whatsoever.The Korean national football team is better off without these people's support. They don't need the support of unethical cowards with inferiority complexes and identity issues who use the team to feed their own egos and who make real Korean citizens look bad to the world.Their behavior is highly predictable. It is easy to read their minds and work out their personalities and how they will respond.So if you come across these supporters, keep in mind that most likely they are not real Korean citizens. You don't have to be a citizen of a country to support that team but these "Korean" supporters will mislead you into thinking they are Korean citizens. They will suddenly forget where they live and work, their citizenship and everything like that, and suddenly (and conveniently) they are 100% Korean. Remember: "our team". You can tell whether a poster is a Korean citizen or not because 99.9% of Korean citizens do not post in English-speaking forums, and when they do, their English is bad.Even real Korean citizens who live in Korea and support the Korean national team wouldn't be able to stand these "fans". Korean citizens who are fans of the national football team are proud of their team, maybe more proud than they should be, but they are not obnoxious about their support, nor are they arrogant, unlike these English-speaking North American fans.These non-Korean citizen fans are even more fanatical about the Korean national team than 99% of Korean citizens themselves. Makes you wonder ....

Just out of interest, how is an ethnic Korean in America identifying himself as a supporter of the South Korean national team that much different from an ethnic Korean in South Korea identifying herself as a supporter of the North Korean national team?
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#12 Honbun

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:14 PM

Just out of interest, how is an ethnic Korean in America identifying himself as a supporter of the South Korean national team that much different from an ethnic Korean in South Korea identifying herself as a supporter of the North Korean national team?

The difference is I don't say "our team" when I talk about the North Korean football team, that is, I don't morph into a North Korean overnight. And the other difference is I don't ask for people to be banned or call them "trolls" because they talk in less than glowing terms about my favorite teams. Nor do I ask for posts to be deleted just because they contain good points I can't refute and make me look bad.

Will be interesting to see super "El Escudero" in the Korean league.

Is he joining the Korean league? So long as he doesn't kick the ball high when he shoots - a common failing of Korean players - I think that will be good.

Edited by Honbun, 12 August 2012 - 04:27 PM.


#13 Honbun

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 02:47 AM

I would like to see the Korean players do more backwards passes. I have seen the Brazilian players do that a few times now in the two games of theirs I've watched at the London Olympics and I haven't seen the Korean players do that once in their last few games.The Korean team should also practise doing crosses. There should be more use of assists in getting the ball into the goal since the strikers they have do not have good goal-aiming skills. So the set-pieces that are employed in the endgame (when the ball is near the goal end) should involve more backwards and sideways passes.Also, the team should practise doing low straight kicks into the goal. They should avoid kicking high. I know they do this to clear the heads of the opponents who will try and block them but the lobs are too high and the success rate of the kicking is very low.They should also practise doing corner kicks so that the kicks are not so high or overshoot the goal area. Basically, Koreans need to shoot much lower than they have been doing on average. A high percentage of the missed goal attempts or bad passes are due to kicks being too high. Strong ground kicks are what they need to use more.Also, the players should be forbidden from shooting goals at wide angles. I know a couple of them have been successful in the competition, but the majority have not, and as I said, it's EFFICIENCY that counts more than anything.Until they get used to getting the ball into the goal at narrower easier angles, they should not attempt the goal shoots at wide angles. Master the basics first, and THEN work on the advanced harder skills.An important competition is not the time to show off; playing it safe and consistently is the name of the game. As the Korean coach I would worry if the players suddenly started to make spectacular strikes like goal attempts from a wide angle or strikes from half way across the field and things like that in a major competition. I would know that these sorts of strikes were beyond the skill level of the players and that they are trying to use the game to showcase themselves as individual players, and not concentrating on getting the team to win the match.Sure, if the strikers were first-class, I would give them looser rein to attempt these sorts of plays but it's obvious there are no first-class strikers on the Korean team.So I would definitely not allow non-first class strikers and other players to abuse the team like that, cynically using the team for their own vainglory and acting as a block for the team to win the competition.Basically, Koreans should think about winning the war (the competition). Winning a battle is not enough. They should think about HOW they won the last battle. Analyze. Analyze. Ditch the celebrations and get back into game mode quickly. The war is not over yet. Are the tactics they used in the last game good enough to beat their next opponent? Is just having a good defense good enough to defeat a team like the Brazilians who also have excellent defense and can get the goals into the net?The Korean team should aim higher and be less satisfied with what they have been achieving. If they do not change their thinking, they will continue to be in the stands watching as spectators the teams who are in the gold medal match.And if they re-orient their thinking in this way and are honest with themselves, they will realize they are not good enough to be in the finals the way they currently are playing. And that they should commit to working on their deficiencies much harder, especially on fixing the systemic errors in their game.For crying out loud, they still haven't gained mastery over the most elementary aspects of the game yet like corner kicks, and passes to one another when they are in the goal area.FIRST, gain those skills, and THEN sign up for major comps. Getting the ball into the goal shouldn't be a shoot-and-miss affair. We are not watching the Olympics or the World Cup to see a would-be goal shooter kicking the ball two meters over the net. If we wanted to see such amateurish play, we can see that going to the local football field watching the school teams play their matches.Control of the ball is so important. If you cannot control the ball, the passes, the goal kicks, then you shouldn't be playing in the major leagues. I don't understand why Ji Dong Won is in the national team. All throughout the last couple of matches, he made wide goal kicks and goal kicks that went way over the net. Yes, he made ONE successful goal kick but that was one out of what - twenty attempts he made?The same applies to Park Chu Young but to a lesser extent.And yet Ji Dong Won and Park Chu Young are going to be remembered as the goal scorers that helped Korea win the bronze medal match in the Olympics.And not as the team members that wasted about 100 assists.Their record is not good but they are banking on the goals they did manage to get in to get them the lucrative sponsorships that are worth millions of dollars. Anyone willing to pay them this sort of money based on their performance in these international matches would be making a mistake. As it is, I think people are catching on that Korean players are over-hyped - Park Chu Young has been dropped from Arsenal. I don't know how long a future Ji Dong Won has with Sunderland - he hasn't done a whole lot for that team since he's been signed and he missed so many goal attempts in the Olympics.Park Ji Sung has signed up for some Qatar league, not a very good league I am guessing, and is out of Manchester United. And he's only 30 as well.The only bright hope out of the Korean players is Son Heung Min and his showing has been slowing down. He isn't scoring spectacularly as he was when he started off. He has the advantage that he is ambidextrous (feet-wise at least) but for some reason his performance has been down. I think once again, the mental aspects are defeating him. He is young, and he has missed out on a normal life as a Korean kid, having to live in a foreign country and living an artificial kind of life at that, being famous and everything. Also, there is probably some resentment from a few of his team members that he is getting a lot of attention even though he is younger than everyone else. He probably isn't mature enough to handle it all and that is why his playing has been off.If he's not careful, he will fly off the handle, ruin all the promise he showed at a young age, and be a has-been by his mid-twenties.So to summarize, here is what the Korean team should practise doing more of:-• backwards passes near the goal - must practise this thousands of times until it becomes natural• sideways passes near the goal• short passes near the goal• low ground strikes at the goal• lower corner kicks• set pieces near the goal end - zigzag the ball close to the net until the path to the goal is free of defenders even kicking the ball backwards if they have to, to keep possession• goalkeeper kicks ball less far to the other end - more measured kicks that land where many team players are• striker passing the ball instead of attempting strikes from difficult position eg. many opponents in front, shooting from a wide angle, shooting far from goal• not celebrating too much after a goal• striker congratulating assisting players before he congratulates himself• team should congratulate assisting players as much as goal shooter if not more• coach keeps the team under firm discipline• coach collects data on ratio of number of successful goals to number of attempted goal kicks for the relevant players, and displays this data prominently for all the players to see so that they can judge how efficient their goal kicks have been and can use it as a yardstick to try and raise their score rating• instead of celebrating the end of a match, team must immediately gather around and watch video of the whole game and analyze where they went wrong and study the video carefully and devise ways that they can improve their play for the next match• team has video watching sessions where they watch and analyze the play of their future and potential opponents, especially the champion teams like Brazil etc, and work out the weaknesses and strengths of their game• coach trains them on kicking low goal strikes - must practise about 300 of those kicks every day per individual player• players work on their upper-body strength - weight lifting, boxing, pushups, curling dumbbells etc• for each player, their weak points are identified and players must practise improving their weak pointsVery importantly, the coach must get each player to agree that they will show the highest level of mental control on the football pitchie.- no grimacing after failing to shoot a goal or other failure,- no kicking the turf or pummeling the ground with the fists,- no arguing with the referee whatsoever,- no arguing with a member of the opposing team or with members of one's own team,- no throwing up of hands in despair at a failed goal shoot, no sign of frustration when the other team shoots a goal,- no panicking and trying to do desperate measures when one is losing the game,- patience when near the goal end, perfect execution of a goal near the goal end,- no celebrating of a goal except some claps when a goal is scored by one's team eg no rolling on the ground, doing a winner's lap, jumping up and down, dancing, group hug or anything over the top like that and there should be a time limit on such activities,- getting up immediately after one is fouled- no major celebrations until the tournament is OVER- review of mistakes on video IMMEDIATELY after the game

Edited by Honbun, 18 August 2012 - 04:55 AM.


#14 johnkim

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:11 AM

North Korea could be up there with the best if the style of play changed so that more attack-oriented play was accepted and wasn't punished by the referees. This defense oriented game style is a bore. It means fewer goals and people diving to get penalty free kicks, that is, gaining unfair advantage in the game. Those who try to tackle other players are given the yellow or red card on a frequent basis. Soccer has become a less enjoyable sport and highly referee-dependent. It's less about skill and more about how the referee calls the fouls.

Edited by johnkim, 18 August 2012 - 04:13 AM.


#15 Fusion

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:59 AM

Is he joining the Korean league?

Yeap, he joined Seoul.
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#16 Honbun

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:15 AM

North Korea could be up there with the best if the style of play changed so that more attack-oriented play was accepted and wasn't punished by the referees.This defense oriented game style is a bore. It means fewer goals and people diving to get penalty free kicks, that is, gaining unfair advantage in the game.Those who try to tackle other players are given the yellow or red card on a frequent basis.Soccer has become a less enjoyable sport and highly referee-dependent.It's less about skill and more about how the referee calls the fouls.

That's me, Honbun, who posted that. My friend, John, joined the forum using my computer, and I forgot to log out, and so the post appears under his name.

Yeap, he joined Seoul.

I found this link and see S. Escudero in a Seoul football team, FC Seoul.http://www.soccerway...ublic/fc-seoul/They have had a good season, being defeated only once, by an Incheon team.There are several other foreigners in this team. It will be interesting to watch them play. Unfortunately, Korea is not a big football nation, say, in the style of GB or Germany, so they don't show Korean football games on a regular basis, unlike baseball - actually, they don't show baseball that much, but they show it more frequently than football. I am talking about regular TV stations, not cable, which I don't have.I think Japan has a good future so long as they learn the fundamentals of teamwork, something, which as a nation, they have potential to excel in, the same as the Germans. They should not follow the model of South Korea, which has had a lot of ups and downs in the international arena, and concentrate on just good solid football, perfecting the basic skills, and not try to cultivate "stars". Now that they have learned the finer points of play from an American coach, it is time for the Japanese to inject some homegrown philosophy and cultural strengths into their game.South Korea seems to latch onto any old formula, and then discard it for something else when it doesn't give them the quick returns they expect. For a while, it was all about finding an "international coach". They have gone back to native Korean coaches these days. Hong Myung Bo seems to have given up on the Korean national league. He is quitting while he is still ahead. He knows the team is not really up to snuff when it comes to winning the gold in international championships, and so bows out while there is still euphoria about the bronze medal in the Olympics. Probably smart of him to do this.I am sure the national football team is going to rest on these laurels for quite some time ... as if it's proof that Korea can be one of the greats ...Korea is good at defense, that's all. It is a real uphill battle for them to score goals. And when it comes to teams like Brazil, who are good at both defense and attack, their defensive play breaks down.I don't know what happened with GB in the quarterfinals. They had a surprisingly poor showing against South Korea in that match. It could be the under 23s rule. There could have been too few experienced players on that team. But with football having such a huge following in GB - it is their national sport - and their teams being so well-funded, I expected a better performance from GB. I am not only talking about the last penalty kick that was missed by the way. A team has to lose that penalty kick shootout eventually - it's just bad luck that it was a British player who missed. I am talking about their whole play during the match. Compare their play to Brazil, who did not let South Korea score a single goal.Anyway, will be watching out for Mexico. They played with passion and with some good discipline. They were not intimidated by Brazil and showed that they can get the goals IN. They played a clean game and overall, I was impressed by them. If they keep that up, they can be up there with the top teams.Anyhow, it's refreshing to see a team that is a non-European team win the Olympics. I want to see the same happen in the World Cup. And I want to see a more attacking team win it this time though I won't be holding my breath.

Edited by Honbun, 18 August 2012 - 05:03 AM.


#17 Honbun

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 03:11 PM

I saw bits of the match between Queen's Park Rangers and Bolton Wanderers last night. From accounts, the QP Rangers were thoroughly beaten by Bolton. Not an auspicious start for Park Ji Sung as captain of the team.


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