Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

La Liga week 32 fixtures 2011/2012 - 10th, 11th & 12th april 2012


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
59 replies to this topic

#41 The Artful Dodger

The Artful Dodger

    First Team

  • Members.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,833 posts
  • Joined 22-February 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Liverpool
  • Country Flag

Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:19 PM

No way would Barcelona miss Messi less than Xavi and Iniesta, everybody forgets that nobody talked much about Xavi and Iniesta until Messi started being as red hot as he was. Messi also plays his part in midfield and is a brilliant passer of the ball, when his natural pace declines I wouldn't be surprised to see him become a high attacking midfielder and be a bit like a Rui Costa figure. No surprise to see it's Real Madrid fans making this argument though, Madrid have Ozil and Alonso supplying Ronaldo with everything. It's not close I'm afraid, Messi is a far superior footballer to Cristiano Ronaldo, just watch any game and you'll see his awareness, touch, passing, is so much better than Ronaldo's. Ronaldo has height and heading over him, nothing else.

#42 noelcwt

noelcwt

    Reserves

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Joined 11-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:Casillas, Raul, Guti, Zidane, Ronaldo, R. Carlos, Kaka
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:25 AM

No way would Barcelona miss Messi less than Xavi and Iniesta, everybody forgets that nobody talked much about Xavi and Iniesta until Messi started being as red hot as he was. Messi also plays his part in midfield and is a brilliant passer of the ball, when his natural pace declines I wouldn't be surprised to see him become a high attacking midfielder and be a bit like a Rui Costa figure.No surprise to see it's Real Madrid fans making this argument though, Madrid have Ozil and Alonso supplying Ronaldo with everything. It's not close I'm afraid, Messi is a far superior footballer to Cristiano Ronaldo, just watch any game and you'll see his awareness, touch, passing, is so much better than Ronaldo's. Ronaldo has height and heading over him, nothing else.

Funny, do messi creates all his goals alone or what? Ronaldo have so much more than just height and heading, I would say he is a better athletic type of player, compare to messi who is a far superior team player. But ronaldo isn't lacking in assists and team movement this season either, so I will say he has improve in terms of team play. If ronaldo have just height and heading over messi do you think he will go on and bang 40 goals in la liga for two consecutive seasons? Why don't higuain and benzema do that? They are natural strikers compared to ronaldo though. You claimed ronaldo have the service of alonso and ozil but funnily you didn't mentioned messi benefited from the service of xavi, iniesta and fabregas also.
  • 0

#43 Kartel

Kartel

    Haters ganna Hate Trolls gonna troll

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Joined 13-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:RVN, Marcelo, Casillas, CR7, Ozil, Benz, Ronaldo, Zizu, Ramos, Messi

Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:11 AM

No way would Barcelona miss Messi less than Xavi and Iniesta, everybody forgets that nobody talked much about Xavi and Iniesta until Messi started being as red hot as he was. Messi also plays his part in midfield and is a brilliant passer of the ball, when his natural pace declines I wouldn't be surprised to see him become a high attacking midfielder and be a bit like a Rui Costa figure.No surprise to see it's Real Madrid fans making this argument though, Madrid have Ozil and Alonso supplying Ronaldo with everything. It's not close I'm afraid, Messi is a far superior footballer to Cristiano Ronaldo, just watch any game and you'll see his awareness, touch, passing, is so much better than Ronaldo's. Ronaldo has height and heading over him, nothing else.

Ronaldo beats messi in every physical attribute. And technically they're pretty much the same; Messi's touch, awareness(this ones debatable) and passing is better, but ronaldos a much better far range shooter, can cross a better ball(this ones also debatable), better at free kicks, and a better header, see it evens out here.
  • 0

#44 Maximiliano

Maximiliano

    "The World Is Yours"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,199 posts
  • Joined 10-May 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey Bitch
  • Favourites:España, Lampard, Scholes, Ozil, Kaka, Rossi, Aguero
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:16 AM

Thing with Ronaldo that makes him different is that individually, he can perform by himself where as Messi needs a team surrounding him to truly get the best out of him.
  • 0

#45 The Rebel CRS

The Rebel CRS

    El Jefecito

  • Forum Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,171 posts
  • Joined 22-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:Carles Puyol
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 05:10 AM

Thing with Ronaldo that makes him different is that individually, he can perform by himself where as Messi needs a team surrounding him to truly get the best out of him.

How do you work that out? How can a player pick out great passes or dribble past players like they aren't there due to other players? Explain how players around you can make you do that?
  • 0

#46 noelcwt

noelcwt

    Reserves

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Joined 11-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:Casillas, Raul, Guti, Zidane, Ronaldo, R. Carlos, Kaka
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:09 AM

Thing with Ronaldo that makes him different is that individually, he can perform by himself where as Messi needs a team surrounding him to truly get the best out of him.

How do you work that out? How can a player pick out great passes or dribble past players like they aren't there due to other players? Explain how players around you can make you do that?

I think the main reason why I will pick ronaldo over messi is because he had proven in two different leagues, with two different clubs and players. He has been consistently performing/delivering for the past 4-5 seasons, bar the performance against barcelona in the last two seasons.This is all debatable and subject to personal opinion but I think it's a bit too far to claim that ronaldo is nowhere near messi level. They are both very great and we are lucky to have two of the best players in la liga, I think we can all appreciate the healthy competition they both bring to each other. As we said of now, ronaldo have equaled his 40 goals record of last season with 6 games to go, and messi is just one behind, how often do you see that?Messi will be a legend of barca, no doubt about that, and he won't move to other club unless there are miracle, so the argument will always be there. But do people dispute the abilities and skills of pele because he played most of his professional career in brazil? No?
  • 0

#47 Maximiliano

Maximiliano

    "The World Is Yours"

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,199 posts
  • Joined 10-May 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Jersey Bitch
  • Favourites:España, Lampard, Scholes, Ozil, Kaka, Rossi, Aguero
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 02:18 PM

How do you work that out? How can a player pick out great passes or dribble past players like they aren't there due to other players? Explain how players around you can make you do that?

I tend to notice that Messi's ability at full potential is directly influenced on link up play. Put Messi on the wing, speed, balance, and control are his strengths. Put him as the false number 9 he is central along side players who are influenced by the pass and move philosophy, where Messi can truly get his full ability. Whether the link up is Messi and Alves, Messi and Busquets, Messi and Xavi, or Messi and Iniesta, each link up can influence the whole teams involvement that can make Messi truly shine, something you can't see with Argentina. He does perform well, typically the best player, but to a certain extent for as he plays a much deeper role.Ronaldo on the other hand, doesn't need link up play to perform his uppermost ability. Whether United, Madrid, Or Portugal, he makes himself the direct unit in his attack on the wing.Take for example a regular club, maybe a MLS, or a B squad-------------Someone--Ronaldo----------Someone------Someone---Someone----------------Someone-----------Def------Def-----Def--------Def-------Someone--------Someone----------------------Messi---------------------------Someone----Someone---------------------------Someone--------------Def----------def-----------def-----------defPut either of them on a new squad full of same, random, mediocre players. With Messi's ability of speed, vision, control, balance, and acceleration, he would influence that team massively. But without the 'Spanish' philosophy, total football, that is controlled in the squad and the missing links, Xavinesta, Busquets, and Alves, i don't think Messi will be able to show his best. With Ronaldo being able to perform with his individual attributes and only using himself as his direct unit of attack, i think that overall, for my thesis, is that Ronaldo would have an easier time than Messi on those clubs.

Edited by Maximiliano, 14 April 2012 - 02:20 PM.

  • 0

#48 The Artful Dodger

The Artful Dodger

    First Team

  • Members.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,833 posts
  • Joined 22-February 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Liverpool
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 04:38 PM

Ronaldo beats messi in every physical attribute. And technically they're pretty much the same; Messi's touch, awareness(this ones debatable) and passing is better, but ronaldos a much better far range shooter, can cross a better ball(this ones also debatable), better at free kicks, and a better header, see it evens out here.

Ronaldo beats messi in every physical attribute. And technically they're pretty much the same; Messi's touch, awareness(this ones debatable) and passing is better, but ronaldos a much better far range shooter, can cross a better ball(this ones also debatable), better at free kicks, and a better header, see it evens out here.

No he isn't. People say Ronaldo is stronger just because he is bigger, but he isn;t, Ronaldo gets knocked off the ball easier the Messi, who goes down easier, he complains about his team mates.Ronaldo is nowhere near Messi in terms of ability with the football at his feet, it's obvious to anyone who's played the game, not even close.

I think the main reason why I will pick ronaldo over messi is because he had proven in two different leagues, with two different clubs and players. He has been consistently performing/delivering for the past 4-5 seasons, bar the performance against barcelona in the last two seasons.This is all debatable and subject to personal opinion but I think it's a bit too far to claim that ronaldo is nowhere near messi level. They are both very great and we are lucky to have two of the best players in la liga, I think we can all appreciate the healthy competition they both bring to each other. As we said of now, ronaldo have equaled his 40 goals record of last season with 6 games to go, and messi is just one behind, how often do you see that?Messi will be a legend of barca, no doubt about that, and he won't move to other club unless there are miracle, so the argument will always be there. But do people dispute the abilities and skills of pele because he played most of his professional career in brazil? No?

I think the main reason why I will pick ronaldo over messi is because he had proven in two different leagues, with two different clubs and players. He has been consistently performing/delivering for the past 4-5 seasons, bar the performance against barcelona in the last two seasons.This is all debatable and subject to personal opinion but I think it's a bit too far to claim that ronaldo is nowhere near messi level. They are both very great and we are lucky to have two of the best players in la liga, I think we can all appreciate the healthy competition they both bring to each other. As we said of now, ronaldo have equaled his 40 goals record of last season with 6 games to go, and messi is just one behind, how often do you see that?Messi will be a legend of barca, no doubt about that, and he won't move to other club unless there are miracle, so the argument will always be there. But do people dispute the abilities and skills of pele because he played most of his professional career in brazil? No?

Messi has scored more goals and created a lot more goals than Ronalod, in a worse team (proven by the league position).It's not even debatable, as I said before anyone who watches them both play and has played the game knows Ronaldo is not near Messi's level, which is why no players talk about him in the same terms as Messi. Messi is quite clearly a better footballer than Ronaldo.

#49 noelcwt

noelcwt

    Reserves

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Joined 11-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:Casillas, Raul, Guti, Zidane, Ronaldo, R. Carlos, Kaka
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:46 PM

No he isn't. People say Ronaldo is stronger just because he is bigger, but he isn;t, Ronaldo gets knocked off the ball easier the Messi, who goes down easier, he complains about his team mates.Ronaldo is nowhere near Messi in terms of ability with the football at his feet, it's obvious to anyone who's played the game, not even close.Messi has scored more goals and created a lot more goals than Ronalod, in a worse team (proven by the league position).It's not even debatable, as I said before anyone who watches them both play and has played the game knows Ronaldo is not near Messi's level, which is why no players talk about him in the same terms as Messi. Messi is quite clearly a better footballer than Ronaldo.

Ronaldo scored more goals using his head than messi, another plus point over messi, penalty conversion rate etc etc. and FYI ronaldo have more assists or is on the same with messi on assist in la liga this season.Barcelona's a worse team? You do mean that messi alone lifted barcelona to where they are today? I think I should cease my argument here. :doh:I agree it's not even debatable, at least with you. You are too biased, more so than a barcelona fan.
  • 0

#50 The Artful Dodger

The Artful Dodger

    First Team

  • Members.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,833 posts
  • Joined 22-February 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Liverpool
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 07:53 PM

Real Madrid are top of the league, are they not? This means they've been better than Barcelona, i.e a better team. Messi creates far more and has scored more, espeically in Europe, which is the highest test of a player. I'm not biased, I love football, love watching good players, both are fantastic but Ronaldo is not near the level of Lionel Messi.

#51 noelcwt

noelcwt

    Reserves

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Joined 11-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:Casillas, Raul, Guti, Zidane, Ronaldo, R. Carlos, Kaka
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:03 PM

Real Madrid are top of the league, are they not? This means they've been better than Barcelona, i.e a better team. Messi creates far more and has scored more, espeically in Europe, which is the highest test of a player.I'm not biased, I love football, love watching good players, both are fantastic but Ronaldo is not near the level of Lionel Messi.

Barcelona is the reigning champion, yet ronaldo scored 40 goals last season, 5 or 6 more than messi, doesn't that make him a better player than messi because he was in a 'worst' team last season yet break the la liga scoring records and is miles ahead of messi? He never missed a penalty yet messi missed a 2 or more last season and this, doesn't that makes him 'weaker'?How often do you see messi wins a header? How often do you see messi scores with his head? He is much more weaker than ronaldo in the air, that's not even debatable. Messi is a better team player, but ronaldo is a better individual player for me. I rate them both very high and close based on their form for the past few seasons. Perhaps messi edge ronaldo a little bit because he won the league and champions league with barcelona last year, it could be the other way round had ronaldo won it with madrid, but I won't say that messi is far behind ronaldo if that happens though.Being 2nd this season doesn't suddenly make barcelona a worst team, they are in the king's cup final and are still in the semi final of champions league, plus the league is not concluded yet.
  • 0

#52 The Artful Dodger

The Artful Dodger

    First Team

  • Members.
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,833 posts
  • Joined 22-February 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Liverpool
  • Country Flag

Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:12 PM

You're wrong. I maintain that anyone who has played the game, understands football and appreciates good skill with a football, can see how superior to Ronaldo Messi is. Ronaldo wins more headers, so what? Good football is played on the ground, Messi isn't a bad header of the ball for his height and he doesn't need to win headers because the ball is at his feet where he can score and create. As I've said, Ronaldo is a great player, but better than Messi? The gulf is massive.

#53 noelcwt

noelcwt

    Reserves

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Joined 11-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:Casillas, Raul, Guti, Zidane, Ronaldo, R. Carlos, Kaka
  • Country Flag

Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:06 AM

You're wrong.I maintain that anyone who has played the game, understands football and appreciates good skill with a football, can see how superior to Ronaldo Messi is. Ronaldo wins more headers, so what? Good football is played on the ground, Messi isn't a bad header of the ball for his height and he doesn't need to win headers because the ball is at his feet where he can score and create.As I've said, Ronaldo is a great player, but better than Messi? The gulf is massive.

So what? So ronaldo is better in the air than messi. Aerial ability is also part of a football game. I never claim ronaldo to be better than messi, but he is definitely not far from him. I think I really should cease my argument here.
  • 0

#54 Salford Kel

Salford Kel

    It's in a book... must be true...

  • Banned
  • 30,267 posts
  • Joined 24-August 11
  • Gender:Female
  • Favourites:Giggseh and Scholeseh
  • Country Flag

Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:10 AM

Was watching a Scholes passing compilation on Youtube earlier. Some of the piss poor control from Ronaldo on the end of some exquisite passes from Scholes was laughable
  • 0

#55 Danny652

Danny652

    Sunday League

  • +Trialist
  • 5 posts
  • Joined 15-April 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Country Flag

Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:57 AM

Barca congrats!!!

#56 The Rebel CRS

The Rebel CRS

    El Jefecito

  • Forum Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,171 posts
  • Joined 22-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:Carles Puyol
  • Country Flag

Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:28 AM

Was watching a Scholes passing compilation on Youtube earlier. Some of the piss poor control from Ronaldo on the end of some exquisite passes from Scholes was laughable

But he's a "great team player" nowhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58w9Lkses10&feature=g-all-lik&context=G2fdb175FAAAAAHgALAAApparently, he also "carried United" and "carries Madrid" now. He has no help and does it all himself :yawn: .

Edited by Eyezil, 15 April 2012 - 11:29 AM.

  • 1

#57 Salford Kel

Salford Kel

    It's in a book... must be true...

  • Banned
  • 30,267 posts
  • Joined 24-August 11
  • Gender:Female
  • Favourites:Giggseh and Scholeseh
  • Country Flag

Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:33 AM

Piss poor control for a supposed 'best player in the world', that's all I'm saying. Scholesy gave him daggers after one of them and he looked at the ground in shame
  • 0

#58 Kartel

Kartel

    Haters ganna Hate Trolls gonna troll

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Joined 13-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:RVN, Marcelo, Casillas, CR7, Ozil, Benz, Ronaldo, Zizu, Ramos, Messi

Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:50 PM

No he isn't. People say Ronaldo is stronger just because he is bigger, but he isn;t, Ronaldo gets knocked off the ball easier the Messi, who goes down easier, he complains about his team mates.

Ronaldo goes down because he wants to go down. I thought was obvious; I've seen Ronaldo get kicked, pushed and pulled before and still hold on the ball.

Ronaldo is nowhere near Messi in terms of ability with the football at his feet, it's obvious to anyone who's played the game, not even close.

Messi's only got better close control and passing over Ronaldo, thats it.
  • 0

#59 noelcwt

noelcwt

    Reserves

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,086 posts
  • Joined 11-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:Casillas, Raul, Guti, Zidane, Ronaldo, R. Carlos, Kaka
  • Country Flag

Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:15 PM

Ronaldo goes down because he wants to go down. I thought was obvious; I've seen Ronaldo get kicked, pushed and pulled before and still hold on the ball.Messi's only got better close control and passing over Ronaldo, thats it.

I would say messi have better creativity and greater vision over ronaldo, though ronaldo have improved a lot this season as you can see from the assists he had made this season. Ronaldo is definitely better than messi on air, got a better and longer shooting range with more power, can score with both feet, and better conversion rate of penalty.
  • 0

#60 Kartel

Kartel

    Haters ganna Hate Trolls gonna troll

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 409 posts
  • Joined 13-July 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Favourites:RVN, Marcelo, Casillas, CR7, Ozil, Benz, Ronaldo, Zizu, Ramos, Messi

Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:00 AM

I would say messi have better creativity and greater vision over ronaldo, though ronaldo have improved a lot this season as you can see from the assists he had made this season. Ronaldo is definitely better than messi on air, got a better and longer shooting range with more power, can score with both feet, and better conversion rate of penalty.

We'll never know really, as CR7 is a selfish glory hunter. Hes been better this season though, making a slight change in his game/personality.
  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users