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#6281 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 08:57 AM

So usa in Somalia had NOTHING AT ALL to do with Neighboring Ethiopias close ties to Russia (who supplied the government weapons money and troops)

 

Not saying the USA were there only for that reason but I'm sure the chance to be nosy neighbors so soon after the fall of the wall was a contributing factor.


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#6282 nudge

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Posted Today, 09:01 AM

In the 90s? No. In a period until that? Yes, definitely, considering that the US backed Ethiopia until the fall of Haile Selassie and the rise of DERG, and Soviets were backing Somalia until then, and then they both switched sides to support.

But the late 80s civil war in Somalia and US involvement in it in 1992 definitely had nothing to do with Ethiopia or Russians still located there. 


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#6283 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 09:04 AM

Our opinions differ and fair enough :thumbup:


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#6284 MaximusMeyer

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Posted Today, 10:40 AM

Al-Qaeda were supporting the Somalians during that period, and they were at that point more hostile to the Russians than they were to the Americans, what with the memory of the Russian invasion of Afghanistan still fresh... So not only were the Russians absent from the conflict, but some of their most recent enemies were present - and they were not the Americans.

 

I have never seen anyone anywhere claim that the Battle of Mogadishu had anything to do with Russians... the Cold War was already won, and the conflict in Somalia signaled the new kind of global warfare, namely Islamic fundamentalism striving against the pseudo-Christian secular democracies of the free world. 


Edited by MaximusMeyer, Today, 10:41 AM.

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#6285 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 10:53 AM

"the cold war was already won"

 

Words fail me.


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#6286 MaximusMeyer

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Posted Today, 10:56 AM

Well why not? The Iron Curtain fell, the Berlin Wall was down, International Communism lost its most powerful entity in the fragmentation of the Soviet Union.... Whatever kind of political tension that emerged afterwards was categorically different from the period when the USSR stood growling on the other side of the world. NATO became the foremost global police force, without any contest.


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#6287 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 11:22 AM

The wall came down, the USSR disbanded, and Russia and the west lived happily ever after.

 

America would still have kept a close eye on the ruskis.


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#6288 MaximusMeyer

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Posted Today, 11:36 AM

GREAT argument... you can argue that the Cold War will be making a comeback in the near future with Putin's Russia rising up again, but the CW threat was totally smothered in the post-Soviet era, so no...

 

Dude just stop... Nudge & I have defeated you with our superior logic, and every one of your comments is sillier than the last... Just stop and say we win, and I will show mercy.


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#6289 nudge

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Posted Today, 11:38 AM

They might have, but the Russians weren't a hostile superpower anymore. After Eastern European (Warsaw Pact) and former Soviet republics broke away and the USSR was dissolved in 1991, the newly independent states and Russian Federation had enough internal problems, they weren't a danger to the US and NATO anymore. Economical depression which hit former Soviet states was immense, further increased by radical market-oriented reforms and massive privatisation, and the new Russia itself lacked any political and military power, it was a complete chaos which in mid 90s almost led to a civil war. To be honest, it only started to recover in 2000s.  


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#6290 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 11:46 AM

The wall came down, the USSR disbanded, and Russia and the west lived happily ever after.

 

America would still have kept a close eye on the ruskis.

 

They might have,

 

Thats all I want.

 

GREAT argument... you can argue that the Cold War will be making a comeback in the near future with Putin's Russia rising up again, but the CW threat was totally smothered in the post-Soviet era, so no...

 

Dude just stop... Nudge & I have defeated you with our superior logic, and every one of your comments is sillier than the last... Just stop and say we win, and I will show mercy.

 

Show some maturity. Also, I think you missed my point, just because the war was officially over doesn't mean the 2 sides wouldn't have kept any tabs on each other.


Edited by Danny-Boy, Today, 11:46 AM.

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#6291 MaximusMeyer

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Posted Today, 11:54 AM

The mature thing to do is admit when you are wrong when you are providing no clear, consistent argument whatsoever, so you will receive less of it from me... That is backtracking of the highest order, by the way... so the Cold War was 'officially over', but you are astonished when I professed that it was already won?

 

Obviously they still kept tabs on one another, but to nowhere near the same extent as they did even a decade prior, and there was no longer the threat of nuclear holocaust, which was the birth of the original CW fear (along with Communism, which also dissipated)... 


Edited by MaximusMeyer, Today, 12:00 PM.

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#6292 Tsubasa

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Posted Today, 11:58 AM

And that's why I don't participate in arguments I'm not 100% knowledgeable about. 


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#6293 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 12:14 PM

The mature thing to do is admit when you are wrong when you are providing no clear, consistent argument whatsoever, so you will receive less of it from me... That is backtracking of the highest order, by the way... so the Cold War was 'officially over', but you are astonished when I professed that it was already won?

 

Obviously they still kept tabs on one another, but to nowhere near the same extent as they did even a decade prior, and there was no longer the threat of nuclear holocaust, which was the birth of the original CW fear (along with Communism, which also dissipated)... 

 

My argument is extremely consistent. The cold war was officially over. But so soon after the fall of the wall both sides would have kept a very close eye on one another. So when the opportunity arose to enter a country neighboring a Russian backed nation it would have been one of the things they considered IN MY MOTHERFUCKING OPINION.

 

Its quite simple. Nudge decided to leave well enough alone but you are a dog with a bone. Maybe next time people are calling for you to be banned I won't rush to your defense :ninja: :D *

 

 

*Disclaimer. This is an empty threat, I still love you. :lol:


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#6294 MaximusMeyer

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Posted Today, 12:17 PM

That's really stretching the issue, but FINE... I'm going to bed anyway, adios to you, you dilapidated sun-scarred retarded wombat


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#6295 nudge

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Posted Today, 12:19 PM

My argument is extremely consistent. The cold war was officially over. But so soon after the fall of the wall both sides would have kept a very close eye on one another. So when the opportunity arose to enter a country neighboring a Russian backed nation it would have been one of the things they considered IN MY MOTHERFUCKING OPINION.

 

Its quite simple. Nudge decided to leave well enough alone but you are a dog with a bone. Maybe next time people are calling for you to be banned I won't rush to your defense :ninja: :D *

 

 

*Disclaimer. This is an empty threat, I still love you. :lol:

 

I didn't leave mate, I can well recognize a pointless discussion though ;)


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#6296 Tsubasa

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Posted Today, 12:19 PM

That's really stretching the issue, but FINE... I'm going to bed anyway, adios to you, you dilapidated sun-scarred retarded wombat

 

rekt!


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#6297 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 12:21 PM

Thank you, sleep well with Bieber and your moose girlfriend.

I didn't leave mate, I can well recognize a pointless discussion though ;)

 

They might have,

 

 

I'll take it.

 

I obviously can't prove i'm right but its really not much of a stretch to consider that at some point during the discussion of another Somalian intervention that Russian friendly Ethiopia was mentioned.


Edited by Danny-Boy, Today, 12:21 PM.

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#6298 nudge

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Posted Today, 12:22 PM

Thank you, sleep well with Bieber and your moose girlfriend.

 

 

 

I'll take it.

 

I obviously can't prove i'm right but its really not much of a stretch to consider that at some point during the discussion of another Somalian intervention that Russian friendly Ethiopia was mentioned.

 

What? I seriously don't follow. 


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#6299 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 12:24 PM

What don't you follow?


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#6300 nudge

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Posted Today, 12:27 PM

Your line of thought :P What other intervention?


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#6301 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 12:32 PM

Your line of thought :P What other intervention?

 

Didn't the Americans support the Somalis in the 70s?


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#6302 nudge

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Posted Today, 12:36 PM

Didn't the Americans support the Somalis in the 70s?

 

Somalia were supported by the Soviet Union until late 70s-early 80s, and Ethiopia was supported by the US until mid 70s. In fact, during the Somali-Ethiopian war in the late 70s, Soviet Union supported both sides and tried to arrange a ceasefire, only for Somalis led by Barre to sever all ties with them and invite Americans in early 80s.

There was no intervention either way. 


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#6303 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 12:40 PM

Eh, support/intervention, whatever. That points all yours.


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#6304 Tsubasa

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Posted Today, 12:54 PM

Well, that was intense, and this time I actually did learn something :P


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#6305 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 01:03 PM

It wasn't intense. You haven't seen me actually 'argue' if you think thats intense. That was a discussion of differing opinions amongst friends. :lol:


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#6306 Tsubasa

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Posted Today, 01:09 PM

You could have learned something too if you weren't so stubborn  :ninja:


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#6307 oliveandblue

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Posted Today, 01:34 PM

Is there any league playing during the international break?  If not, what are the not-so-shit friendlies that you guys are going to watch?  

 

I think the MLS is playing, now that I think of it...


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#6308 Danny-Boy

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Posted Today, 01:56 PM

Gonna watch Belgium beat Australia by 4.


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#6309 oliveandblue

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Posted Today, 02:03 PM

USA is playing the Czech Republic.  I think that has "draw" written all over it.  Klinsmann will probably try different things out instead of selling out for a win.  

 

I wish the USA would become seeded in a World Cup.  We're at 13th right now, so a run of good performances could have us crack 6th-7th in the nick of time.  I think it's important if the USA have dreams of winning something once they get to the KO rounds...


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