Mohammad

The 15 Most Successful English Football Clubs

38 posts in this topic

I was bored, so I searched for the overall trophy tally won by the top 15 English football teams.

Here are the overall standings:

1. Liverpool - 58

2. Manchester United - 55

3. Arsenal - 39

4. Tottenham Hotspur - 24

5. Everton - 24

6. Aston Villa - 22

7. Chelsea - 17

8. Manchester City - 13

9. Wolverhampton Wanderers - 13

10. Newcastle United - 12

11. Nottingham Forest - 11

12. Blackburn Rovers - 11

13. Leeds United - 9

14. Sunderland - 9

15. Sheffield Wednesday - 9

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That's a Champions League spot for Spurs! :tongue:

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^I was actually thinking. If Tottenham have one golden decade, just one, somewhat similar to United's or Liverpool's, they could seriously close in on us.

I think Chelsea will slowly work their way across Aston Villa though, that sounds more realistic.

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I thought Everton would have more than what they have.

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It's not accurate working it out this way, is it better for a club to have won...say..20 League Cups than 19 European Cups?

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I was bored, so I searched for the overall trophy tally won by the top 15 English football teams.

Here are the overall standings:

1. Liverpool - 58

2. Manchester United - 55

3. Arsenal - 39

4. Tottenham Hotspur - 24

5. Everton - 24

6. Aston Villa - 22

7. Chelsea - 17

8. Manchester City - 13

9. Wolverhampton Wanderers - 13

10. Newcastle United - 12

11. Nottingham Forest - 11

12. Blackburn Rovers - 11

13. Leeds United - 9

14. Sunderland - 9

15. Sheffield Wednesday - 9

And what are you counting as trophies? I've seen some pretty laughable "honours" on wikipedia including some vote as world team of the year in a soccer magazine! I'd definitely discount Charity Shields and Intertoto Cups, not sure if the UEFA Super Cup, Intercontinental Cup or Club World Championship is really worthy of being included alongside competitions that took a lot more games to win. I doubt they'd seriously influence the order, some of the more mickey mouse trophies appear to be heavy influences

Including only Top flight league titles, FA Cups, League Cups and the European Cup, Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup ie major trophies that require more than one or two games to win :-

MAJOR DOMESTIC/EUROPEAN TROPHIES

01. Liverpool 40 (L18, FAC 7, LC 7, EUR 5+3)

02. Man Utd 34 (L17, FAC 11, LC 2, EUR 3+1)

03. Arsenal 26 (L13, FAC 10, LC 2, EUR 0+1)

04. Aston Villa 20 (L7, FAC 7, LC 5, EUR 1+0)

05. Tottenham 17 (L2, FAC 8, LC 4, EUR 0+3)

06. Everton 15 (L9, FAC 5, LC 0, EUR 0+1)

07. Chelsea 13 (L3, FAC 4, LC 4, EUR 0+2)

08. Newcastle 10 (L4, FAC 6, LC 0)

09. Blackburn 10 (L3, FAC 6, LC 1)

10. Wolves 9 (L3, FAC 4, LC 2)

11. Man City 9 (L2, FAC 4, LC 2, EUR 0+1)

12. Notts Forest 9 (L1, FAC 2, LC 4, EUR 2+0)

13. Sunderland 8 (L6, FAC 2, LC 0)

14. Sheff Wed 8 (L4, FAC 3, LC 1)

15. West Brom 7 (L1, FAC 5, LC 1)

KEY : L=League, FAC=FA Cup, LC=League Cup, EUR= European Cups + UEFA Cups/Cup Winners Cups

I'd probably weight more towards league titles and European Cups, that would shift forest up and Sunderland too. Counting only league titles and European Cups combined :-

01. Liverpool 23 (18/5)

02. Man Utd 20 (17/3)

03. Arsenal 13 (13/0)

04. Everton 9 (9/0)

05. Aston Villa 8 (7/1)

06. Sunderland 6 (6/0)

07. Newcastle 4 (4/0)

08. Sheff Wed 4 (4/0)

09. Notts Forest 3 (1/2)

10. Chelsea 3 (3/0)

11. Blackburn 3 (3/0)

12. Wolves 3 (3/0)

13. Leeds Utd 3 (3/0)

14. Huddersfield 3 (3/0)

An interesting note, English clubs have now won the European cup 11 times - level with Spain and Italy.

EUROPEAN CUPS BY COUNTRY

11 England, Italy, Spain

6 Germany, Holland

4 Portugal

1 Scotland, France, Yugoslavia, Romania

EUROPEAN TROPHIES BY COUNTRY (EUROPEAN CUP/UEFA CUP & CUP WINNERS CUP)

27 Italy

25 England

23 Spain

17 Germany

11 Holland

6 Portugal

4 Belgium

3 Scotland

2 Sweden, Russia, Ukraine

1 Yugoslavia, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Georgia, Turkey

While Pratini may complain at English dominance, we used to dominate Europe let alone the one competition. Now we seem to be less dominant in the UEFA Cup

UEFA Cup/Cup Winners Cup 1961-1985 : winners x10, runners-up x6

UEFA Cup/Cup Winners Cup 1986-2008 : winners x4, runners-up x3

European Cup 1986-2008 : winners x3, runners-up x3

European Cup 1956-1985 : winners x8, runners-up x2

The European Cups are fairly consistent, taking into account the ban 1956-1985 is about twice the number of seasons. UEFA Cup and Cup Winners Cup didn't start until the 1960/61 and 1971/72 seasons respectively. So those time periods are roughly equal, although there is one less competition since the CWC was stopped after Lazio won it in 1999, there were/are only two domestic cups to win. England has had three teams in the UEFA Cup final since and including Arsenal in 2000, five teams in the Champions league final since and including Liverpool in 2005. Maybe a reflection on the 'big four' and money, but the UEFA Cup teams don't do themselves justice and some see it as a burden rather than a privilege

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And what are you counting as trophies? I've seen some pretty laughable "honours" on wikipedia including some vote as world team of the year in a soccer magazine! I'd definitely discount Charity Shields and Intertoto Cups, not sure if the UEFA Super Cup, Intercontinental Cup or Club World Championship is really worthy of being included alongside competitions that took a lot more games to win. I doubt they'd seriously influence the order, some of the more mickey mouse trophies appear to be heavy influences

As long as it is a recognized tournament, whats the big deal? Its STILL an official trophy to win, so it should count as a trophy tally. In any case, even if you werent to consider Charity Shields or Super Cups, it wont change the balance much since the big seven remain the same way they are overall, with a few switches between Tottenham and Aston Villa, etc. But really, how could you NOT consider the World Club Cup? I know and I agree that the formatting is pathetic, however, you still get to be called "World Champions". Its like a confederations cup yet I don't see people discounting Brazil or other nations from winning them.

Including only Top flight league titles, FA Cups, League Cups and the European Cup, Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup ie major trophies that require more than one or two games to win :-

MAJOR DOMESTIC/EUROPEAN TROPHIES

01. Liverpool 40 (L18, FAC 7, LC 7, EUR 5+3)

02. Man Utd 34 (L17, FAC 11, LC 2, EUR 3+1)

03. Arsenal 26 (L13, FAC 10, LC 2, EUR 0+1)

04. Aston Villa 20 (L7, FAC 7, LC 5, EUR 1+0)

05. Tottenham 17 (L2, FAC 8, LC 4, EUR 0+3)

06. Everton 15 (L9, FAC 5, LC 0, EUR 0+1)

07. Chelsea 13 (L3, FAC 4, LC 4, EUR 0+2)

Pratically the same big seven as I had in my own list, with a few switches between Everton, Villa and Spurs. But Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United remain in their same positions.

08. Newcastle 10 (L4, FAC 6, LC 0)

09. Blackburn 10 (L3, FAC 6, LC 1)

10. Wolves 9 (L3, FAC 4, LC 2)

11. Man City 9 (L2, FAC 4, LC 2, EUR 0+1)

12. Notts Forest 9 (L1, FAC 2, LC 4, EUR 2+0)

13. Sunderland 8 (L6, FAC 2, LC 0)

14. Sheff Wed 8 (L4, FAC 3, LC 1)

15. West Brom 7 (L1, FAC 5, LC 1)

KEY : L=League, FAC=FA Cup, LC=League Cup, EUR= European Cups + UEFA Cups/Cup Winners Cups

Im sorry but Id rather have Leeds in that list than to add West Bromwich in, considering Leeds won something European if Im not mistaken.

I'd probably weight more towards league titles and European Cups, that would shift forest up and Sunderland too. Counting only league titles and European Cups combined :-

01. Liverpool 23 (18/5)

02. Man Utd 20 (17/3)

03. Arsenal 13 (13/0)

04. Everton 9 (9/0)

05. Aston Villa 8 (7/1)

06. Sunderland 6 (6/0)

07. Newcastle 4 (4/0)

08. Sheff Wed 4 (4/0)

09. Notts Forest 3 (1/2)

10. Chelsea 3 (3/0)

11. Blackburn 3 (3/0)

12. Wolves 3 (3/0)

13. Leeds Utd 3 (3/0)

14. Huddersfield 3 (3/0)

That doesnt look right. By European Cups I suppose you mean Champions League. But really, having Huddersfield instead of Tottenham looks plain old ugly.

In my opinion, that list I first put down was ultimately the best list to determine the powerhouses of football in England. Because West Bromwich and Huddersfield certainly arent.

Your first list was also good, bar the fact you somehow skipped Leeds UTD from the list and - instead - placed West Brom in it.

As for your last list, I hope it was a joke including Huddersfield and giving no regard to Tottenham, a team which won 3 European titles (albeit not Champions League).

So in conclusion, I think the big seven should be:

Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, Aston Villa, Tottenham, Everton and Chelsea

(in which ever order you deem fairer than the other, but overall those are the elite lucky sevens)

and if we were to include others in, itll certainly be Manchester City, Newcastle UTD, Sunderland, Nottingham Forest, Leeds UTD, Blackburn, Sheffield Wednesday and Wolves.

===============================================================================

Anyway lets not overcomplicate things. This thread wasnt about who is the most successful club in winning combined trophies or leagues + [insert whatever makes your team look better]. This was about OVERALL trophies won, which is the best way to know who is overall good.

The topic title didnt say "15 most successful [league cup + fa cup] teams". It says 15 most successful teams overall.

And having someone remove Tottenham or Leeds, and then to add Huddersfield and West Brom instead is a joke.

In the end of the day, its all about how many trophies your club has won, not what "type" of trophies they were.

In a full premier league season, you judge a team by its overall points, not by who they beat and who they lost to.

We could always say,

"Yeah sure Manchester United have more points than any other team in the premier league. BUT, they lost 2 times to Liverpool therefore I think Liverpool should be league champions this year".

But that wouldnt be fair, because we don't judge teams by the quality or types of one or two factors. We count their overall season's performance, and in the end the team with MOST overall points win, even if they didnt score as many goals as the team in 2nd, even though they lost 2 times to Liverpool, etc.

Same thing applies to trophies won.

Overall those are the 15 most successful teams.

If this thread was about the most successful League champions then Id put Huddersfield in front of Tottenham. But clearly it was about who is OVERALL good.

Edited by Mo.
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League = 10 points

European Cup/Champions League = 10 points

FA Cup = 8 points

Cup Winners Cup = 8 points

UEFA Cup = 7 points

League Cup = 5 points

World Club Cup/Intercontinental Cup = 2 points

European Super Cup = 2 points

Charity Shield = 2 points

Season in the top flight = 1 point

Following that point socring table this is what the all time top flight would be:

Liverpool

Manchester United

Arsenal

Aston Villa

Everton

Tottenham Hotspur

Chelsea

Newcastle United

Manchester City

Sunderland

Blackburn Rovers

Sheffield Wednesday

Nottingham Forest

Wolverhampton Wanderers

West Bromich Albion

Leeds United

Bolton Wanderers

Sheffield United

Derby County

West Ham United

With Burnley and Preston falling just short.

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^Thats the best representation so far mate.

Every trophy deserves being acknowledged so long as its official, but some are worth more than others. So thats a good system there mate.

But if theres a way Leeds UTD could make it a bit higher than West Brom I think it would be fairer since Leeds had European success.

Anyhow so far its the best list Ive seen... :)

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If i had more time and could be arsed i could have come up with a more elaborate points system taking into account such things as attendances, runner ups, semi finals, etc but i'm pretty sure the same clubs would be in the top 20. The reason Leeds United are so low is because they have had a bit of success in Europe but more often than not as a runner up whilst they have won 5 domestic titles and have been in the top flight for only 50 years compared to WBA 72 years.

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If i had more time and could be arsed i could have come up with a more elaborate points system taking into account such things as attendances, runner ups, semi finals, etc but i'm pretty sure the same clubs would be in the top 20. The reason Leeds United are so low is because they have had a bit of success in Europe but more often than not as a runner up whilst they have won 5 domestic titles and have been in the top flight for only 50 years compared to WBA 72 years.

And you certainly did a fine job at that mate, much appreciated! :)

Anyhow I don't think attendances or those other factors should be taken into consideration since its all about who won more than the other.

Football's about winning the match / competition / etc. Its not about how much you attract, thats just a bonus in my opinion. Having more fans doesnt win you games, its the team play itself. So I think, from a simplistic point of view, a successful team isnt based on its size or stadium capacity, its recognized on its performance and ability to win matches and trophies. So I think those should be the only factors taken into consideration when judging team success; that is, how many trophies were won, and then giving each trophy its own point system to add up.

Edited by Mo.
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^Thats the best representation so far mate.

Every trophy deserves being acknowledged so long as its official, but some are worth more than others. So thats a good system there mate.

But if theres a way Leeds UTD could make it a bit higher than West Brom I think it would be fairer since Leeds had European success.

Anyhow so far its the best list Ive seen... :)

Wheres the Lancashire cup then? Definatly deserves 10 points :tongue: .

On a serious note, its about right that list. Its good to see we are on it, 11th isn't bad when you think of the sizes of the teams above us, compared to ours. You don't see any other "small" Lancashire town in the top 15 or so anyway, we dominate the place :hh: .

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Great post Ozwat :congrats:

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League = 10 points

European Cup/Champions League = 10 points

FA Cup = 8 points

Cup Winners Cup = 8 points

UEFA Cup = 7 points

League Cup = 5 points

World Club Cup/Intercontinental Cup = 2 points

European Super Cup = 2 points

Charity Shield = 2 points

Season in the top flight = 1 point

Following that point socring table this is what the all time top flight would be:

Liverpool

Manchester United

Arsenal

Aston Villa

Everton

Tottenham Hotspur

Chelsea

Newcastle United

Manchester City

Sunderland

Blackburn Rovers

Sheffield Wednesday

Nottingham Forest

Wolverhampton Wanderers

West Bromich Albion

Leeds United

Bolton Wanderers

Sheffield United

Derby County

West Ham United

With Burnley and Preston falling just short.

Thats quite a good way to work it out i think, but one thing i would like to add and im sure some older members would back me up here......but many years ago the F.A Cup was the biggest Cup competition in the world, so teams who won that quite some time ago was say a much bigger acheivement then than say winning a European Cup/Champions League today.

The F.A Cup just is'nt valued the same as it used to be.

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What a load of bollocks, Newcastle haven't won anything ever, remember?

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Surely if you are given 1 point for everty year in Top Flight, Everton would be higher, being in the League for 107 years would it not?

It depends which cups you want to count and not count to make an accurate analysis

The top 2 are easy with Liverpool 1st and Manchester United 2nd then god knows after that

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105 years isn't it mate? And anyway Villa have been in the top flight for 97 years with Liverpool 93 years, Arsenal 91 and Man Utd 83. Obviously Arsenal, Man Utd and Liverpool have won a lot more cups than you whilst Villa have won 7 league titles, 7 FA cups, 5 League Cups and a European Cup to your 9 league titles, 5 FA cups and a Cup Winners Cup. Thats a big enough gap to overcome your 10 point advantage for being in the top flight longer.

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i believe this is our 106th year in top flight football and aston villa's 98th. We are the top 2 in that category so it doesnt matter. Its the most played fixture everton v villa.

be interesting to see post-war stats.

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What a load of bollocks, Newcastle haven't won anything ever, remember?

Certainly not in your lifetime, eh? :lol:

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Wow, i bet your proud of that beauty

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Scott Parker's mong face sums up my feelings on the achievement.

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Newcastle don't half recieve some flack for 'winning f

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Am bored of coursework so anything seems better, so, heres the top teams from each decade using the same points system without the point for a year in the top flight:

1870-1879

1. Wanderers 48

2. Royal Engineers 16

3. Oxford University 8

= Old Etonians 8

1880 -1889

1. Blackburn Rovers 33

2. Preston North End 19

= Aston Villa 8

= West Bromwich Albion 8

= Blackburn Olimpic 8

= Clapham Rovers 8

= Old Carthusians 8

= Old Etonians 8

1890-1899

1. Aston Villa 56

2. Sunderland 30

3. Blackburn Rovers 16

4. Everton 10

= Preston 10

= Sheffield United 10

1900-1909

1. Newcastle United 32

2. Liverpool 20

= The Wednesday 20

4. Aston Villa 18

5. Bury 16

1910-1919

1. Blackburn Rovers 22

2. Aston Villa 18

3. Manchester United 12

4. Sunderland 10

= Everton 10

1920-1929

1. Huddersfield Town 40

2. Bolton Wanderers 24

3. Liverpool 20

= The Wednesday/Sheffield Wednesday 20

4. Newcastle United 18

5. Everton 12

1930-1939

1. Arsenal 76

2. Everton 30

3. Manchester City 20

= Sheffield Wednesday 20

= Sunderland 20

1940-1949

1. Arsenal 12

= Portsmouth 12

3. Liverpool 10

4. Charlton Athletic 8

= Derby County 8

= Manchester United 8

= Wolverhampton Wanderers 8

1950-1959

1. Manchester United 36

2. Wolverhampton Wanderers 34

3. Newcastle United 24

4. Arsenal 20

5. Chelsea 12

= Tottenham Hotspur 12

1960-1969

1. Tottenham Hotspur 46

2. Manchester United 42

3. Liverpool 32

4. Everton 20

= Manchester City 20

1970-1979

1. Liverpool 91

2. Tottenham Hotspur 41

3. Nottingham Forest 34

4. Manchester City 28

5. Derby County22

1980-1989

1. Liverpool 114

2. Everton 42

3. Manchester United 26

4. Aston Villa 24

5. Tottenham Hotspur 23

1990-1999

1. Manchester United 117

2. Arsenal 55

3. Chelsea 23

4. Liverpool 20

5. Tottenham Hotspur 13

2000-2009

1. Manchestr United 84

2. Liverpool 51

3. Chelsea 50

4. Arsenal 48

5. Portsmouth 8

Edited by Golaccio!
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I was bored, so I searched for the overall trophy tally won by the top 15 English football teams.

Here are the overall standings:

1. Liverpool - 58

2. Manchester United - 55

3. Arsenal - 39

4. Tottenham Hotspur - 24

5. Everton - 24

6. Aston Villa - 22

7. Chelsea - 17

8. Manchester City - 13

9. Wolverhampton Wanderers - 13

10. Newcastle United - 12

11. Nottingham Forest - 11

12. Blackburn Rovers - 11

13. Leeds United - 9

14. Sunderland - 9

15. Sheffield Wednesday - 9

overall trophy tally?

can't have done- wednesday's overall trophy count includes a cromwell cup, a football aliance, 3 fa cups, 4 league titles, a sherif of london charity sheild, an fa charity sheild a league cup and 14 sheffield fa cups- that's 27

unless you mean major trophies

which would also be wrong with leeds only having 5 of them

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I was bored, so I searched for the overall trophy tally won by the top 15 English football teams.

Here are the overall standings:

1. Liverpool - 58

2. Manchester United - 55

3. Arsenal - 39

4. Tottenham Hotspur - 24

5. Everton - 24

6. Aston Villa - 22

7. Chelsea - 17

8. Manchester City - 13

9. Wolverhampton Wanderers - 13

10. Newcastle United - 12

11. Nottingham Forest - 11

12. Blackburn Rovers - 11

13. Leeds United - 9

14. Sunderland - 9

15. Sheffield Wednesday - 9

unless you mean major trophies

Obviously he does, whats the point of counting milk trophys and stuff? :lol: every team has them don't they? but you probably have'nt took that into consideration.... not that it matters

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Im sorry but Id rather have Leeds in that list than to add West Bromwich in, considering Leeds won something European if Im not mistaken.
you're mistaken- fairs cups is not recognised by uefa. and rightly so, what with the qualification relying at the start on the city hosting a trade fair................meaning it was not actually a tournament between clubs but citys, then being decided on league position provided the fa wanted you to go- a joke of a trophy, might as well have had players doing an egg and spoon race and presenting them with a trophy (the first one lasted 3 years for fucks sake)

I was bored, so I searched for the overall trophy tally won by the top 15 English football teams.

Here are the overall standings:

1. Liverpool - 58

2. Manchester United - 55

3. Arsenal - 39

4. Tottenham Hotspur - 24

5. Everton - 24

6. Aston Villa - 22

7. Chelsea - 17

8. Manchester City - 13

9. Wolverhampton Wanderers - 13

10. Newcastle United - 12

11. Nottingham Forest - 11

12. Blackburn Rovers - 11

13. Leeds United - 9

14. Sunderland - 9

15. Sheffield Wednesday - 9

unless you mean major trophies

Obviously he does, whats the point of counting milk trophys and stuff? :lol: every team has them don't they? but you probably have'nt took that into consideration.... not that it matters

major trophies don't add up either- leeds are on 5 not 9

I was bored, so I searched for the overall trophy tally won by the top 15 English football teams.

Here are the overall standings:

1. Liverpool - 58

2. Manchester United - 55

3. Arsenal - 39

4. Tottenham Hotspur - 24

5. Everton - 24

6. Aston Villa - 22

7. Chelsea - 17

8. Manchester City - 13

9. Wolverhampton Wanderers - 13

10. Newcastle United - 12

11. Nottingham Forest - 11

12. Blackburn Rovers - 11

13. Leeds United - 9

14. Sunderland - 9

15. Sheffield Wednesday - 9

unless you mean major trophies

Obviously he does, whats the point of counting milk trophys and stuff? :lol: every team has them don't they? but you probably have'nt took that into consideration.... not that it matters

so why's he have leeds on 9?

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No idea, so this is rated with my quite limited knowledge...

1. Manchester United

2. Liverpool

3. Arsenal

4. Everton

5. Tottenham

6. Chelsea

7. Blackburn

8. Newcastle

9. Leeds

10 Nottingham (remember that they won the European Champions Cup beating swedish Malm

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I was bored, so I searched for the overall trophy tally won by the top 15 English football teams.

Here are the overall standings:

1. Liverpool - 58

2. Manchester United - 55

3. Arsenal - 39

4. Tottenham Hotspur - 24

5. Everton - 24

6. Aston Villa - 22

7. Chelsea - 17

8. Manchester City - 13

9. Wolverhampton Wanderers - 13

10. Newcastle United - 12

11. Nottingham Forest - 11

12. Blackburn Rovers - 11

13. Leeds United - 9

14. Sunderland - 9

15. Sheffield Wednesday - 9

It depends how you want to look at it really. Tottenham might have 24 trophies, but I wouldnt class them as being as successful as Everton or Villa with 2 league titles compared to 9 and 7.

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The Intertoto Cup that isn't even a Cup.

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